Filed under: the scenic route
…otherwise known as the Morbid Monday Rant.
A couple of weeks ago I posted a link to Frank Skinner’s article in The Times, where he defended the church (or perhaps, his vision of the church) in the wake of secular mockery that followed the Intelligence Squared debate and the perceived ‘bigot-rustling’ of the announced Anglican Ordinariate thingie. I was so relieved to read what he had to say and mostly agreed with him.
Then I read a few comments about it on some other blogs, which were at best dismissive. One person even said it would have been better if Skinner had stayed lapsed. And I was completely disgusted and in a fit of childish rage I wished that the church in England & Wales would just die out. (The rage passed and I skipped off happily to Mass).
And then, what do you know? It turns out I am no better than those who don’t want to share a church with Mr F Skinner. This weekend I was horrified – yes, I think that is the right word – to find out that GP Taylor is converting to catholicism. Admittedly my opinion of him as ‘that religious prick’ was formed when I was an atheist so it was due a re-evaluation; but when I read that he was leaving “the sinking ship” of the CofE, because it had become a “liberal pit”, I did not feel the warm glow of christian love towards my fellow man that I am meant to.
So. There are two main issues here.
One. If I think God (probably) does love me even if I’m a judgemental disobedient liberal, then he probably also loves GP Taylor.
Two. If God is as the church describes, being loved by God is not enough to save you from being separated from him for all eternity. I think this must be what they call ’tough love’. He loves you, and grace is freely given, and you can’t earn salvation, but you can nevertheless earn damnation (or is it that you have already earned damnation as the default option? not sure).
Have run out of 1 and 2. Correction: there are three main issues.
Three. Is it really the case that, although God loves us all, he genuinely prefers all the people on the right? (insert joke here about goats to the left).
So. God loves me and He also loves all the people I wouldn’t want to be stuck with in a lift. Which isn’t necessarily a problem because if I’m doing all the things that lead to hell and they’re doing all the things that lead to heaven, it’s unlikely I’ll have to spend any significant time with them.
Which leads to issue no. 4 out of my two main issues. Is the barque big enough for all the people who want to be in it even if they’re the sort to light up a fag under the non-smoking sign, or is it a tiny little boat where the always-on-message few can watch the rest of us drown?
p.s. apologies to GP Taylor. I know I’m being horrible.
4 Comments
It’s a little like the assumptions you find that all Catholics can only vote Labour, or Democract (or t’other way if you prefer) when it ain’t policies that matter, it’s the thought processes and motivations behind them. I used to feel that Catholics most usefully made a virtue of humility – the Church of sinners approach – though it is a little hard to find it sometimes, especially in the blogosphere, but then polemic is what the whole genre is about? Fortunately it ain’t about public pronouncements, it’s what’s in the heart. Now that needs to translate into words and actions, so the ‘public’ face can indeed be an indication, but ultimately it’s God himself who makes the call, and I think we’ll all be a little startled at who’s beside us at first sitting for dinner on the Barque on the first night at sea
Comment by Seeker November 9, 2009 @ 5:13 pmOh if only I was as sensible as you Seeker! It’s a good thing humans don’t have godlike powers, otherwise it’d be highly-targeted floods and rains of sulphur and brimstone every day. Although I suppose that’s what war is about. And v. lucky for us that God is merciful and patient.
I should spend more time sorting myself out and less time reading blogs and ranting.
Comment by madame evangelista November 10, 2009 @ 4:45 amIsn’t it amazing how the idea of God torturing billions of people with no let up is still around? Why doesn’t every dismiss this myth in the same way we would the ancient Egyptian belief in a Cosmic Crocodile devouring those who didn’t do all the spells the priests/priestesses of Ma’at prescribed?
I’ve actually written an entire book on this topic–”Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There’s No Such Place As Hell,” (for anyone interested, you can get a free Ecopy of my book at my website: http://www.ricklannoye.com), but if I may, let me share one of the many points I make in it.
If one is willing to look, there’s substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell. For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: “You don’t know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!” Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.
So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn BILLIONS of people for an ETERNITY!
True, there are a few statements that made their way into the gospels which place Hell on Jesus lips, but these adulterations came along many decades after his death, most likely due to the Church filling up with Greeks who imported their belief in Hades with them when they converted.
Comment by Rick Lannoye November 10, 2009 @ 6:15 pmThanks Rick. I should clarify: I don’t believe in a literal concept of hellfire.
Comment by madame evangelista November 10, 2009 @ 7:44 pm